Caregiver Support Line: 1 877 520 3267

Episode 29: Honouring Duty and Self: Caregiving Across Cultures

Caregivers Out Loud

Go Back to Podcast Overview

How do familial expectations and cultural traditions impact how you show up as a family caregiver? This is a question Maybo Lui has considered ever since she unexpectedly became a secondary caregiver for her husband’s father just weeks after they married. A registered clinical counsellor herself, Maybo observes her position from both a professional lens and a cultural one—as Chinese Canadians, there is filial piety and conflicting cultural assumptions at play. 

In their conversation, host Bill Israel and Maybo discuss the impacts of caregiving for an in-law, on both the marriage relationship and the wider family dynamic. Maybo seeks to strike a balance between the selfless expectations of her Chinese heritage and the more Western values of individuality and boundaries. Her approach to thoughtful decision-making and embracing each opportunity for relationship-building will resonate with caregivers from every cultural background.

Maybo Lui

Reconsider how you care for your family member and yourself with Maybo’s insights:

  • How forethought can soften our natural tendencies to pull away or become too involved.
  • The tension between independence and cultural expectations in caring for a parent;
  • The concept of filial piety and cultu as it relates to emotional and physical caregiving;
  • How sensitive boundary-setting can preserve healthy relationships;

Follow and Subscribe to Listen

Quotes from Maybo Liu: 

  • “I never saw it’s just black and white. Where in order for you to honour your parents, you have to completely lose yourselves. Because to me, if you were to truly honour your parents, it also means that you should show up authentically and thoughtfully.”
  • “I started to focus on how do I want to show up in my own family. Even just internally shifting that focus has helped me stay calmer because I’ve noticed that when I get really focused on everything about his family. There’s a lot of things that are out of my control.”
  • “I think when things are calm, everyone can kind of show up perfectly. But it’s only when times are stressful, that’s when our natural tendencies kind of really show up. Typically, I would say when things get stressful, we fall into one of two ways. We either become more distant, or what I find is that when things get stressful. The other group would be they get overly invested, they get overly involved.”

Resources

  • Find out more about Maybo’s work – https://couplesontheroad.com/about/
  • Family Caregivers of BC Caregiver Support Line – 1-877-520-3267 (Monday through Friday 8:30am to 4pm PT)

Connect With Us!

Visit us at our office:

#6 – 3318 Oak Street,
Victoria, BC
V8X 1R1

Hours are Monday through Friday, 8:30 am to 4:00 pm

Follow us on Social Media

Thank You

Transcript

[CHEERFUL DRIVING THEME MUSIC IN // INTRO]

VOICE-OVER: You’re listening to “Caregivers Out Loud”, powered by Family Caregivers of British Columbia and hosted by Bill Israel.

[MUSIC DEVELOPS]

BILL: When you’re thrown into the role of a family caregiver, it presents a whole new set of difficulties, including navigating the health care system, straddling family dynamics, learning new roles and responsibilities, and so, so much more. It seems like a never ending list of things to learn and do. And yet in a cultural context, there’s another layer added to these challenges.

In this social setting, not only are you a caregiver, you have cultural responsibilities and expectations too. It compounds to create a unique caregiving experience that could include navigating filial piety, which is often understood as a deep respect and responsibility toward one’s parents and elders. And for many families, it’s rooted in love, loyalty, and togetherness. However, at the same time, living in a Western society introduces values of independence, individuality, and personal boundaries.

With this intersectionality, these two forces can pull some caregivers in different directions. How does honouring your parents equate to losing yourself? Or does it have to?

[MUSIC CONTINUES]

You’ll hear from Maybo Liu, who explains how caregiving exists on a spectrum. Maybo brings a thoughtful and deeply personal perspective, as a Registered Clinical Counsellor, and as a secondary caregiver, while her husband is the primary caregiver to his parents. They navigated not only the practical realities of care, but also the emotional and relational complexities that come with being a Chinese Canadian family. Caregiving has shaped their marriage, influenced Maybo’s relationship with her in-laws, and challenged long-held beliefs about duty and identity.

I began by asking Maybo about what it was like at the beginning, when she discovered that she was going into this caregiving role.

[MUSIC FADES AND ENDS]

MAYBO: So me and my husband, we started dating when we were really young. Like we were 19. His parents had him when they were a lot older, so his dad had him when he was almost 60. So there is quite a bit of an age gap between them. It was fine, you know, when we first started dating, but it wasn’t until maybe we were in our mid-20s, that’s when his dad got diagnosed with dementia. So in the beginning, it wasn’t really affecting us too much. You know, maybe he would be a little bit more forgetful. He forgets his things at home. It really wasn’t until we got married, that’s when I started to feel more of the pressure.

BILL: What were the living arrangements? Was he living independently or not?

MAYBO: So we were quite traditional in the sense that we didn’t move in together until we got married. So once we got married, we got our own place, so we moved out. His parents were living on their own in their family home. What was interesting was that I remember two weeks after a wedding, his dad got pneumonia and got admitted to the hospital. It was pretty serious and he had to stay in the hospital for a month. But that was the real first experience of what it was like to, you know, when you have a family member that’s not doing well and being involved in that process. 

After that first time where he got into the hospital, you know, luckily he was able to come back to live at home, but his health definitely showed the decline after that. But even after that point, everyone still acted like normal, you know, as if nothing had happened. There was definitely a heightened level of anxiety in the family system. Like, you could just kind of feel it, right? I remember, like, from my mother in law, she would get really anxious about how much food my father in law was eating. They would get into fights about that, right? But it was never verbally communicated about, hey, you know, hey, let’s sit down, everyone, let’s talk about plan. It was never like that.

BILL: Living in Canada, where independence is highly valued, how did you and your husband experience the tension between those values and the togetherness that’s so central in your Chinese culture?

MAYBO: You know, I think even putting caregiving aside, I think we experienced that since we got married. Because the thing about, I think in Chinese family, dinner is so important. Even navigating our first year of marriage, which family should we be having dinner for special occasions, like Chinese New Year? Those kind of things is a constant thing that we have to think about. How much time are we spending with each of our families versus, you know, having time to ourselves. 

Those are the constant tension that I think we experience. I think once caregiving is sort of in our life, you know, it could be as simple as my husband saying to me, hey, I’m going to the senior home to visit my dad tonight. Do you want to come? You know, maybe I had a long day. I actually wanted to stay at home, but just that struggle of, you know, should I stay together as a family and always show up, or should I kind of just actually tell him, hey, I actually don’t want to go tonight. Potentially upsetting some folks, right?

I would say for those years, it did create a lot of tension between me and my husband. I guess I never considered myself as like a secondary caregiver, but now that looking back, I guess I did play that role. But it’s a role that it’s, it’s hard to describe. You know, am I there to support my husband physically or emotionally? I think on a good day I can be very supportive, but on a bad day, I think I actually, I could create more stress for him.

BILL: Sure. And there’s another player here, and that’s your brother in law. I think he’s older than your husband, right?

MAYBO: Yeah. So they also have quite a bit of an age gap, like 17 years.

BILL: Oh, wow. Yeah. So we’re talking,… 

MAYBO: Yeah.

BILL: …intergenerational here almost as well as intercultural. So, say a bit about, this brother in law and maybe even enter the territory of talking about the cultural rule now about the filial piety of the responsibility of the children here and this older brother, can you describe that a bit?

MAYBO: Yeah. So the older brother lives in Hong Kong, but he would come back to Vancouver, you know, multiple times a year, especially when his dad was sick. Traditionally in Chinese culture, usually the oldest son would sort of take on the responsibility, at least more of responsibility for caregiving. But because he’s physically not here, it naturally kind of just fell onto my husband. 

You know, for, for my husband he has a really strong sense of filial piety. Like to him, he just feels like he needs to be there to support his parents because they have no one else. So he would get quite involved in the care of, of my father in law. I remember, you know, eventually my father in law did move into a senior home and my husband would show up at the senior home every single day just to make sure that he’s eating all his food, that he’s feeling comfortable, especially in the early days, like he could stay at the senior home for hours. 

My husband is more of a doer. He’s very action oriented. He would take his parents to appointments, he would buy groceries for them, that type of stuff. I would say his brother was more of the emotional support for his mother. You know, even though they’re living so far apart. What I understand is that they would, they would talk on the phone every single day. Especially, you know, during those, those years where it was very stressful, his mom would turn to his brother for emotional support.

BILL: So you took note of that early on, that there was a significant difference there. They were both supportive, but in very different ways.

MAYBO: Mhm.

BILL: And so how did you see yourself in that?

MAYBO: Going back to how I was saying, his dad got into the hospital just two weeks after we got married. For those four weeks, it was mainly just the four of us. You know, my husband, me, his mom and his dad because his brother was still in Hong Kong. You know, I remember I took time off. I would go to the hospital. I would spend time with my father in law. 

Actually during that period, I would say me and my mother in law actually got closer. After that period I actually felt like she really saw me as a family now. She really saw me as. I’m part of this. But you know, caregiving is a long journey. There are times where I feel I’m more of the outsider because they all get so involved, where sometimes that intensity just makes me want to pull away.

BILL: Sure. So at what point would you say that this dynamic began to take place in your heart where you had some serious questions about your role here?

MAYBO: I never saw, it’s just black and white where in order for you to honour your parents, you have to completely lose yourselves. Because to me, I think if you were to truly honour your parents, it also means that you should show up authentically and thoughtfully. It shouldn’t just be, you know, you’re complying to whatever the expectations are automatically when it comes to caregiving. There are a lot of reality needs. 

But, you know, I always try to think about how thoughtful we can in making these decisions. Do we just kind of automatically just jump into doing something or can we kind of take a step back and really make that choice ourselves? You know, for the longest time, you know me as sort of more of the observer in this because I’m less involved as they are. It was often sort of that, I guess, struggle of, you know, either putting my dad in the senior home or not. And if I put my dad in the senior home, then I’m kind of abandoning him. That was kind of the equation. 

But how I saw it was, it’s not just either or. I think there’s more in between. There’s a space for flexibility. In some ways, I think maybe it is easier for me to say it because even though I am part of the family, but I’m also not as attached as they are because I’m the daughter in law. I mean, I can’t say with confidence that when it comes to my own family, am I able to be as calm or as thoughtful? 

[THOUGHTFUL CALM MUSIC IN]

Maybe not, but at least I hope that ideally, that would be what I’m trying to do.

BILL: So many family caregivers, for whatever reasons, take on the role out of a love, a compassion, and a caring, not paying attention to what it’s beginning to cost them, personally, emotionally, and even physically. This is especially true when the layer of filial piety comes in.

And yet, as you heard, Maybo’s approach is spectacular. You must find that balance, that there’s someplace in here, in between. And that’s not easy. That’s what makes it so challenging.As a partner or secondary caregiver, there could be a lot of questions surrounding how to show up for your partner, especially in a cultural context. 

Like Maybo, she’s someone’s wife and someone’s daughter in law, and there can be a lot of internal pressure of how you should show up within this cultural identity. How much face will you lose if you do this or that? Should you just be there to support your partner? Maybe you have better ways of doing things or be more critical of how one needs to show up. The independence and personal boundaries of the western identity begins to reveal itself. So how does one react when all you want to do is help?

[MUSIC FADES AND ENDS]

MAYBO: In the early days, I would convince my husband, you know, actually senior home is not that bad. You know, I would try to persuade him or I would be like, hey, you know, like, why do you need to stay in the senior home for hours? There’s, there’s staff there, they’re professionals? You know, you should trust them. It’s really easy for me to get critical of him as well. 

But over time, you know, I’ve learned to kind of give him the space to decide how he wants to do things. Because at the end of the day, that’s between him and his dad. And I think he should have the space to decide how he wants to show up for his parents. And actually, me constantly focusing on him doesn’t really help with our relationship.

BILL: Can you say a bit then Maybo, about conversations you may have had, um, with your husband in that regard?

MAYBO: Yeah, I remember we’ve had a few difficult conversations, but they were, they were important. But even before the conversations, I think just me shifting my energy and focus, you know, instead of focusing on his family, I started to focus on, you know, how do I want to show up in my own family. Even just internally shifting that focus has helped me stay calmer because I’ve noticed that when I get really, you know, focused on everything about his family, there’s a lot of things that are out of my control. 

You know, even just thinking for myself, like, how do I want to show up as a daughter in my own family? That has helped me a lot. But going back to, I guess, some important conversations, I think, you know, there were times where I felt like it was really hard to build our own life as a married couple. You know, on one hand, I think it’s important for him to show filial piety, to help all his family. But there are moments where it was really hard for me, where I felt like we couldn’t have the energy and time for ourselves.

BILL: And that’s not only physical and emotional, it’s spiritual. You know, here’s this man I married, but I really don’t have his whole heart. So how do I proceed here?

MAYBO: And I think you’re right. Like a lot of it, it’s not even about, like, time is one thing, but emotionally, do you have the head space to spend your energy on investing on us and building our own family? It’s not just one conversation. I think it’s multiple conversations. And there are times where it wasn’t a planned conversation, where it just became sort of an argument. But when things are calmer, that’s when I remember kind of bringing it up to him. Not kind of instructing him what to do, but more so just expressing to him how difficult it has been. And really just sharing my own thoughts and feelings with him. 

You know, I also thought about what are some things that might be important to me. I think there were things that for example, like, we make sure maybe Friday evening was our own time. So these are kind of the little things that help us. There will still be responsibilities. There are still things that, that needs to be done. But I think me kind of expressing, hey, you know, even just like Friday evening, can we reserve that for us that made a difference.

BILL: As you look back on your husband’s journey, do you notice the way in which other people tend to show up in care relationships? And how do you see different patterns play out? Do you see people actually struggling because they for whatever reason, but often because they have difficulty transiting this very sensitive, spiritual, emotional territory between them as responsible caregivers?

MAYBO: I guess the way I think about caregiving is that regardless of our background or our culture, I do see that we all exist on the spectrum. I think when things are calm, everyone can kind of show up perfectly. But it’s only when times are stressful. That’s when our natural tendencies kind of really show up. Typically, I would say when things get stressful, we fall into one of two ways. We either become more distant, not just physically, but emotionally, right? Like, you can still show up, you know, to visit your parents, but maybe you just. You just not that present. 

Maybe you avoid talking some of those sensitive topics with them. Or what I find is that when things get stressful, the other group would be they get overly invested, they get overly involved. They want to make sure that they’re doing everything that their parents are okay. They might feel guilty if they take time to themselves. I think we all kind of fall onto the spectrum. That pattern shows up more vividly when things get more challenging. 

When you’re on this journey, there’s so many different situations that keep popping up at you. And every time that challenge comes up, these are opportunities for you to do something differently. If you can loosen up a little bit and just treat each time as an experiment, that can make it a little bit easier. 

So let’s say, you know, during that journey, my husband goes to the senior home every single day. Well, every single day is an opportunity for me to think about how I can think about this differently or how I can approach this differently. One of the things that I find to be useful is can we get a little bit more aware of what’s going on internally? Because when we talk about, you know, that natural tendency to either pull away or be overly involved, oftentimes there isn’t a lot of thinking involved. Rather than just kind of automatically reacting. If we can create a space where we can even put a little bit thoughtfulness in it, that can sometimes help us find that balance again.

[CHEERFUL DRIVING THEME MUSIC IN]

BILL: As Maybo points out, your past experiences may influence the way you respond to stress and decisions today. So what is your internal driver that creates an automatic response and how do you pause, and take a breath, to navigate with intention? It’s that purposeful internal shift that can move your relationship, whether it be cultural or not, to a more meaningful caregiving experience.

And if you or someone you know is in a caregiving role and is looking for help, call the Family Caregivers of BC caregiver support line. Here, you’ll access free guidance and resources like expert-led events and community support groups. Call toll-free at 1-877-520-3267.

[MUSIC CONTINUES]

Caregiving, with a cross-cultural identity, can come with a lot of family pressure and expectations, so Maybo has some gentle reminders about acknowledging your voice while you discover the path for your caregiving role.

[MUSIC CONTINUES]

MAYBO: There are so many voices out there to tell you what you should and what you should not do, whether that’s your own family, your culture, even the media. I think sometimes you useful to tune out some of these noises and really turn inwards and listen to your intervals. You know, sometimes we actually do know the answer, but maybe we’re not willing to accept what we can realistically do and cannot do for our family. But I do think if we don’t turn inwards, if we just neglect our own voice, it will come back in other ways. Maybe that’s through anger, resentment, burnout, conflicts. It will come back eventually. So I think there’s usefulness in really slow down and pause for a second and listen to our own voice.

[MUSIC DEVELOPS // OUTRO]

VOICE-OVER: Thank you for listening to “Caregivers Out Loud”, powered by Family Caregivers of British Columbia and hosted by Bill Israel. Produced and sound edited by Organized Sound Productions. We acknowledge the financial support of the Province of British Columbia and the BC Ministry of Health – Patients as Partners Initiative.

If you like what you’re hearing, discover more episodes, and find more caregiving resources at familycaregiversbc.ca. And if you find these episodes helpful, please share them with your family and friends who may find it enlightening to hear these stories.

Finally, don’t forget to subscribe to our show on your favourite podcast listening app, so you can take us with you wherever you go. Thank you for listening and taking the time to learn and care for yourself with other caregivers, out loud.

[MUSIC ENDS]